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FOG N v2 updated army lists
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Steve Green



Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 201
Location: Woodend

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1809 Saxons (somewhat obviously I suppose, given my history!) but also the French and Austrian from that year also.
These are really the only ones I could comment on with any semblance of intelligence.

EDIT: I just saw your reply to Marty about the Austrians, but I know Michael Bornstein has been playing around with the Saxons.
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we all know 'playing around' isn't the same as 'commitment'. Very Happy

Talk is cheap...

I'll send you the v2 lists you've asked for by the end of the month.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 62
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often wondered a bit about the varied rating of Hungarian infantry in the Austrian lists. Veteran seems like an odd fit. The reading I have done doesn't suggest that they were steadier or more disciplined than the Germans. I think the lists where they get a choice between average or superior drilled are probably a better fit with their reputation for somewhat greater elan.

Martin
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BPT



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martymagnificent wrote:
I have often wondered a bit about the varied rating of Hungarian infantry in the Austrian lists. Veteran seems like an odd fit. Martin


Absolutely. I've been v2'ing the Austrians and the Hungarians have been changed from the v1 Av. Vets, to Sup. Drilled.
German grenadiers are Av. Vet, while Hungarian grenadiers are Sup. Vet.

Certainly Hungarian regiments did not have any more experience than German ones, that would justify a higher training rating.
However, they (debatably) enjoyed better elan and aggression (or at least the reputation of this) and perhaps had a higher opinion of themselves than their white trousered colleagues.

In the eyes of the French in 1809, I believe Hungarian Regiments were viewed as having better martial qualities than the Germans. Hungarian Grenadiers in particular were highly regarded opponents.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 62
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That all sounds pretty sensible to me.

I've always been particularly perplexed by the 1805 Danube list. It's an odd one, I suspect, because the only large action it fough was Austerlitz where it fought in a mish mash of Russian and Austrian units. I don't believe the the Ulm Campaign actually produced any corps size battles.

The notes for the list talk about Austrian 'corps' having no 'standard structure' and operating in 'ad hoc' columns. It then gives a set of unusually restrictive rules for the formation of divisions that would suggest the exact opposite! For some reason every base of German infantry can be Veteran. It has a very high minima of line infantry (28 bases?!), a problem shared by the 1809 list, and allows only 3 divisional commanders, which is odd given there is no shortage of higher commanders in the OOB or a single, uniform corps structure. This problem is shared by the 1799 Germany list. In both 1799 and 05 the Austrian army in Italy can have 4 divisional commanders.

I think the poor command abilities of these armies are better refected by giving them limited access to skilled divisional commanders (this is a more effective measure under V2 as you are more likely to want skilled commanders). There is no reason to restrict the number of commanders available.

Martin
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BPT



Joined: 07 Nov 2016
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Martin

I haven't quite got on to the v2 1805 Austrian lists just yet, not too far away though. The 18th century Austrian lists could use a little thought I agree.

Also, on commanders, unless there is a very good reason to limit DCs to 3 then all armies will be able to field 4 DCs (even if you have to attach a division form another list to get the 4).

- And skilled Austrian DCs will be rare. Most Austrian lists only allow L1 DCs. A reasonable amount of care is going into v2 command structure options which hopefully will result in table-top forces that better reflect a force's reputation as being 'well led' or 'badly led'.

Also, some lists have little or no choice of what level their cc will be. If a Corps was commanded by a specific individual, we're attempting to rate that leader, and that is who your CC will be.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 62
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good Brett.

Quote:
Also, some lists have little or no choice of what level their cc will be. If a Corps was commanded by a specific individual, we're attempting to rate that leader, and that is who your CC will be.


This one could prove pretty contentious (rating generals always seems to be). Not necessarily a bad thing though.

It looks like I will be hitting the road for the July Melbourne comp this year so I've been thinking about FOGN lists a fair bit. It will be good to catch up with how things are shaping up (and play a few games).

Martin
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