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Jutland Anniversary megagame
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Noah



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew v I wrote:
Hello

Just wondering what time we are to kick off (cast off?) on Sunday.

Given my almost complete ignorance of WW1 naval warfare, is there anything that you can suggest that I can read in an hour or two before Sunday? I was hoping to read something like the Massie book, but life has got in the way. Maybe I can read it before the big game in July.

Regards


Hi Andrew

I believe the league changed the time they start slightly (to 10:30 I believe...?) But I'll be getting there 10:00 on the dot if not earlier to get in as soon as the doors open (set up could reveal problems that I don't want eating into everyone's time). 10:30 is when (ideally) everything will be set up and ready to go.

Reading wise, I'd actually recommend a podcast if you're interested in that sort of thing. Search for Dan Carlin's Hardcore History on itunes and you'll find a splendid series on World War 1. Go for episode IV of that series: "Blueprint for Armageddon" it's called. It deals with the classic 1916 battles: Verdun, Somme and of course Jutland. If you scroll forward about an hour or so you should be good to listen. Nice little potted history of the battle and the history of the ships etc of the previous 20 years. Some of the pronunciations are a little off (Beatty for example) but other than that, good listenable little history.
I'd also suggest Massie simply because since he deals with the entire war at sea, the battle of Jutland is about 3-4 (long) chapters, so worthwhile if you have a few extra hours.

Edit: For an extremely quick little overview, check out this doco:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn09whbf6co&index=5&list=PLA69BB087B3D1B538
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Andrew v I



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Location: Flemington

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Noah

I suggest that you check with Tyler as to when we can get into the building, as I suspect that it is 10.30am.

Regards
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leadgend



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 663
Location: Brunswick

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Official start time is 10.30am but you may be lucky if Tivoli staff turn up earlier.
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bring your southwesters just in case.....

cheers
mark
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Noah



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen

All is now ready for Sunday.

I have -
13 metres of cloth.
60 12 sided dice
4 and a half rulebooks
250 ships (though we won't be using all of them - this time)
and 1 tape measure

With that in mind, I must ask that you all bring nothing more than a tape-measure, paper and pencil. Pleasure ensure the tape-measure has centimetres on it.

Anyone who has a printed copy of the Fleet Action Imminent rulebook and/or extra 12 sided dice are more than welcome to bring them along as well.

This is going to be the learning game where we just have a unit of Battleships, Cruisers and Destroyers each and have at it. The aim is to have fun and get comfy with the rules. Whilst it wouldn't be unrealistic to be learning the rules on the actual day, it might make for a slow game.

See you all on Sunday! Very Happy
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Noah,

Great game today! The rules seem pretty good - the KISS principle needs never to be forgotten.

Andrew, Noah and I discussed possibly running a smaller action, be it either Dogger Bank January 1915 or the Battle of the Bite August 1914. That may be more manageable for players not too familiar with the rules.

cheers
Mark
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Andrew v I



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Location: Flemington

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. It was a terrific effort by Noah. I encourage others to jump on board (sorry).
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Noah



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for your kind words.

Ultimately (despite my OCD) if everyone had a good time then that is all I can ask.

My (memorised) notes from the day.

1. Ship ID tags of some description. It looked good on TMP, but once maneuvering got exciting we all had no idea which ship was which. Perspex or clear plastic I am now on the look out for.

2. Torpedo markers (and a better idea of what their rules are), it was a bit of a disappointment for all involved when we realised torpedoes couldn't be used... Especially as certainly Mark's battleships looked to be in for a lot of bother if Andrew fired his torpedoes accurately.

3. A much bigger table, we were taking up a lot of space just with two "smallish" (relative to Jutland) forces. More players would've made it something of a traffic jam to say the least.

Mark and Andrew, anything else?

As ever, the more the merrier, I have room for (I kid you not) a maximum of 30 players on the big day. Very Happy

Edit: re changing the battle, the purist in me desperately wants to make it Jutland, but if we simply don't have enough players the Bight or Dogger bank it'll be. I have a scenario book custom made for the ruleset and those battles so that should be easy.
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Andrew v I



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Location: Flemington

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noah

I certainly don't think that the table could be any wider and it would be better that it was a bit narrower. That might mean that you need two rows of tables, with a gap in between.

Unless you have a very long table, I suspect that you couldn't have anything like 30 players without fistfights breaking out.

I think that putting the ships on some sort of bases would help with handling and also allow for some sort of identification marker on each base. On Sunday, with my ships all zig zagging, it was a bit like playing three card monte in terms of identifying the ships. If nothing else, you could tack a piece of thin cardboard with identification details to the underside of the stern of each ship. What I have in mind is something that sticks out of the back of the ship, with the identification details facing upwards.

I have found another couple of people who would be interested in participating in a game, subject to their availability on the day. I suspect, however, that you are going to struggle to get anywhere near the number that you would need to have in order to do Jutland. I haven't read the rules yet, but I am wondering if we could modify the rules in some way to speed up play and allow a player to control more ships. For example, is there a way that a squadron could do everything as a single unit?

Let's talk some more about what is possible.

Regards
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Andrew v I



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Location: Flemington

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found another potential player and he knows someone else who might be interested.
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Andrew v I



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 77
Location: Flemington

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found another interested player. We are getting closer.
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the ship identification tags or whatever are not too prominent and not overburdened with too much detail, they are an excellent idea. I think mounting the ships on narrow strips of thin clear Perspex would be best with a simple coloured code at one end, such as BBx, BAx, BCx, BCx, ACx, LCx, DDx etc with 'x' being the relevant identification number for that vessel/squadron. I have seen large Napoleonic games quite wrecked visually, imho, with overly large identification tabs with too much detail printed on them [such as the FoGN labelling programme]. I confess that it's a pet hate of mine that the visual aspect of figure gaming has too many rules related intrusions on the table to cause one to suspend disbelief....

I really liked the booklet logs, but think adhesive contact over the coloured printouts stuck therein and use of white-board markers will mean that you can use each logbook again and again without duplicating effort.

Just my fuenf pfennigs worth....

cheers
Mark
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Noah



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent work Andrew. The more the merrier!

With reference to a larger table, probably the best option would be to have it split down the middle. I fear we had much of the board covered over with such relatively small fleets. A gap inbetween will have to suffice, although such a surface area may mean I start taking over half the league in the process... Embarassed

I'm struggling to find decent torpedo markers. Any ideas? Cut out pieces of paper are my worst case scenario...

Ideally I'll have the capital ships initialled or named (the US had BB-38 etc for their ships (at least in ww2)but I've yet to find such a system for the Europeans) whilst lighter forces will be numbered with a corresponding number on their info sheet.

What's the feeling toward a June game? Are you gentlemen (and others who've signed up) interested in another run or shall we leave it to July/August?
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 937

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am more than a bit dubious about long range torpedo use in naval combat WW1.

I very much doubt that any torpedo launched in battle (as opposed to U-Boot surprise torpedo attacks by stealth) ever hit anything beyond 3,500 yards (2 miles). The rules indicate potential ranges for rotating mounts of 10,000 yards (6 miles) with something like a 50% chance of a hit at 3,5000 yards or less, both of which I view as utterly risibly silly.

I would not allow torpedoes to be fired beyond 3,500 yards unless we were playing a surprise night action. That way no markers are necessary

We should at worst stick to the streamlined torpedo rules on page 7-8 to 7-9 which I think does not use markers on table. All we would need is a toothpick or matchstick (marked with a centre dot matching that of the ship) to place where the firing ship initiated its launch from, as it will have moved from that point by the time we resolve torpedo attacks. As I read it the firing player decides the torpedo's course before anyone moves and he has to guess the angle of his spread.

As noted previously, I do not like the look of lots of markers cluttering the table anyway. Game aesthetics are important imho.

As it involves even more record keeping, I wonder just how much torpedos will really add. For example, in our last game I really thought the torpedos posed absolutely no threat to my capital ships given the ranges and the speed of my vessels. Had they been launched at ranges exceeding 6,000 or 7,000 yards. If that view was wrong then I would seriously question the rules in that regard.

cheers
"There's something wrong with our bloody ships today" Mark
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m.gray



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having not received the rules but if long range torpedoes have been included in these rules with associated bookwork I feel it will overburden an already large battle and I would have to agree with Mark
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