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Next year's November tournament theme
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Theme for 2017 ADLG tournament?
1200 to 1550
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
1300 to 1550
33%
 33%  [ 5 ]
Late Middle Ages Chapter, excluding other lists
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
None of the above, some other era (please tell us which!)
13%
 13%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 15

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Richard



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1026
Location: Elsternwick

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't feel more points adds anything to game play except time and more figures .

There are no different tactical challenges so , for me , the game is just as satisfying at 200pts

I don't think this is about players who used to play a rule set and have dropped off . I think its a chance to bring new ancient players in & smaller armies ( at least for now ) helps that .

The general trend in rule sets is for a shorter game that can be more easily played in an evening, 200pts goes to this

With the failure of Ancients competitions in Australia I think we are free of the constraints of precedent

If the comp is successful older players will join in .
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see no inherent attraction in shorter games unless it allows you to play more games. To me the whole point of comps is to get as many games as possible, preferably against people I dont normally play.

Martin
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Tyler
Site Admin


Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add one more voice to the chorus for 200 points.

As a new player to ancients/medieval, I wouldn't have taken up ADLG if it required more miniatures. I didn't have any miniatures for the era, and never would have if ADLG's small size didn't offer a relatively easy entry.

Most of the games I regularly play in 15mm are WW2, Cold War, moderns, which require fewer figures than ancients. I have one Napoleonic army; painting it was a horrible experience. I've intended to paint other Napoleonic forces, but have never followed through because of the figure count. ADLG at 200 points is the right size that I can compare it to one of my other games, and see it as a reasonable project.

I think it will be easier to draw in new players if the armies are sized for easy purchase and painting.

If we scale up, then the table size, army lists and game time scale up with it. So it's theoretically the exact same game, except harder to paint an army for, and it takes more time to reach the exact same result. I don't see those as advantages. There are already enough figures on table to look "right" to me, and the game length is perfect. Obviously both of those conclusions are entirely subjective, but there it is.

When we were standing around outside on the morning day one, I explained that I for one would never have given ADLG a chance if it were at 300 points instead of 200. I was told by one of our interstate visitors, "OK, well you're just one person, so you can fuck off," which I was rather taken aback by. I considered taking him up on his offer and leaving then. I'm glad that I didn't; it turned out to be a good weekend. But I couldn't shake how that comment had made me feel. I thought it was an odd point to make. Why would you want fewer people interested in playing the game you enjoy? Even if just one? But, more to the point, I disagree that it would have been just one. I think a lot of new players have and will joined ADLG because of the advantage of it's smaller army size. I don't want to lose those people.

This pastime only succeeds by constantly bringing new people in and encouraging as many as possible to participate. The harder we make it for new people to join, the less likely we are to have anyone to play with at all a few years down the track.

Marty, I do agree with you that we should take advantage of the shorter game times to add more rounds. I would have liked to see three rounds on Saturday, two on Sunday. So we're on the same page there. I feel like that's a good compromise, as it still allows a very relaxed day Sunday, with plenty of time to shop and such. With Cancon as an example for a three day comp, we could always do three rounds, then two and two. That gets an extra game in, shopping time on day two, and an early exit for road-trippers like me on the final day.

My two cents.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally you would hope to have both 2 and 300 point comps available over the course of each year. As well as some theme and some open.

Variety is generally a good thing.

Martin
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Richard



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1026
Location: Elsternwick

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um , we run 1 comp a year in this period Very Happy so ....
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what you gents do with the LOA's comp is of course, quite properly, a decision for you guys. I unfortunately cant travel to Melbourne all that often but I certainly wouldn't avoid your comp because it was 200 points.

There is, however, Cancon and a number of Sydney comps to consider. I believe some Melbourne players travel to Cancon as I've played a few of them at FOGN (which by the way is a game that serves as the perfect example of why using more figures is just better!!). I dont know if Melbournites travel up for MOAB (which is an awesome convention)

In the end I suppose it will default to the usual situation where whoever organises the comp does what they want and everyone else can like it or lump it.

I would encourage ancients organisers (which most years includes myself) to try out all the available formats. Open, theme, 200 and 300 points

Martin
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Nick



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Bentleigh

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

martymagnificent wrote:
I see no inherent attraction in shorter games unless it allows you to play more games. To me the whole point of comps is to get as many games as possible, preferably against people I dont normally play.

Martin


Fair enough, that's what you get from tournaments, as do a number of other people, but yet other groups of people play tournaments for a variety of other reasons. To that end 200pts with 2 games per day works well.

I don't see any advantage of 300pts over 200pts in ADLG.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...

apart from looking better because it has more models, 300 also diminishes the impact of an unlucky 6-1 result that obliterates a unit unexpectedly. Losing 1 out of 35 units is less of a problem that losing one out of 25. ADLG can generate a few of these WTF combat results and bigger armies make it easier to recover from. 300 points might just "scale up" the number of units but adding an extra command does actually change the deployment and tactical decisions significantly. 300 also allows me to use my old FOG terrain, which is too large for 200 points.

After all, if we really accept the "fewer models is better" mantra we may as well all be playing DBA.

Martin
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Nick



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Bentleigh

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reductio ad absurdum is never a good argument... Wink
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a huge DBA fan, but I don't consider it so bad that what I said is an "reductio ad absurdum!"!

Martin
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marty,

If you jump back to the first post, you will see that this thread is all about what the LoA should do in its Ancients tournament in Melbourne next November. It is not about cogitating on some perfect paradigm for ADLG - I suspect that no such thing exists as every group will have its own bespoke preferences, none of which are universally right or wrong. Whilst I am sure that the views of all who have played in recent LoA tournaments or those seriously intending to play next year, will be taken into account, this is not really the place for a greater philosophical debate about ADLG or whether x amount of figures on a wargames table is better than y figures. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Forgive us if we are Southron curmudgeons. We are a relatively old club, dating back to the 1970's, and are to an extent set in our ways, although as you have seen different members of the LoA have their own view of the zoo too. Huzzah!!! But we always warmly welcome interstate visitors and players.

cheers
Mark
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Steve Green



Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 189
Location: Woodend

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am more than happy to stick with the 200 pt themed competition.
The game was designed around 200pt armies, and I quite enjoyed the relaxed pace of the two days. It was nice to not feel pressured to move things along too much for fear of running out of time to get a result. In my four games I seem to have crashed in screaming heap around the two hour mark (though this is probably more a reflection of relative skill level than any objective comment on average game time), allowing a bit of wander time to see what the "big boys" were up to with their fancy pikes and cataphracts. Laughing
As familiarity with the rules improves, we could consider the possibility of bigger armies or even three games in a day, but I think it worthwhile to stick with the standard format for a while.
The themes make for a closer competition I think. Playing opponents in period reduces the chances of "a knife to a gunfight". As long as there are loan armies to be had, I agree they are the way to go.
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jared



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 154
Location: Camperdown

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too many responses to the survey which probably suggests that many are happy to go with whatever is offered. With over 80% of votes for the later periods it seems that all we require is a decision over a century here or there.
I was wondering when the committee is planning to finalize a decision? Next November is obviously miles away but it could be useful for planning what to buy and paint.
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Tupiboy68



Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 15
Location: Central Coast

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy to go with whatever...
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Jason 'tupiboy' Williams
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double Plus Good to hear from you Jason!!!!!!

We'll share a tankard or two at Cancon....

cheers
Mark
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