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FOG N v2 updated army lists
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear Elba is lovely in the summer Mark Very Happy

The poor old Tyroleans have had a really bad rap as an example of gamey armies. Ironically the history of their use though is far more innocent. Brett from NZ who plays them is one of the most pleasant gamers you will ever play. He built them as he saw Old Glory sold the figures and he was intrigued by the list as an unusual one. He painted them beautifully and has used them in a couple of tournaments with mixed success (so certainly not a super army). As a key contributor to v2 he has also happily nerfed them so they probably will not be fielded very often in the future. As to "metagamed" lists becoming common, I'm honestly not sure which army lists you're referring to. Other than a couple of friendlies I've had with Michael G where Michael has been trying his "system" in FOG N, all the tournaments I've been part of have had pretty balanced armies (Tyroleans aside...).

On the changes to artillery, remember artillery batteries are respresented by attachments in FOG N and most divisions can have at least one. Artillery units represent anything from 18-30 guns (the corps reserve artillery) so one shouldn't expect to see one of those in every division.

While we haven't done anything to the cost of shock heavy in v2 yet (and maybe we should), we have made dragoons more powerful and as a result we're seeing them used a lot more in play testing.
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Mick.G



Joined: 25 Jul 2013
Posts: 139
Location: Broadmeadows

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Richard Gordon's approach.

I wouldn't know a correct historical list from a wooden rocking horse, but I really enjoy army list building. For me it's almost as fun as playing the game.

Can't wait for the upcoming tournament.
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Cawdorthane



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 955

PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not mean to single Brett out (or anyone else) by referring to the Tyroleans, and I apologise for that, more it was the focus on armies in v1 with lots of Lt Infantry (which I know you have sought to fix separately) and (non-Tyrolean lists including) Shock Cavalry divisions or frankly weird fantasy nonsense such as Average Guard units etc. I stress that a wargamer is entitled to push to the limits of a 'list' and inevitably will, and where that occurs the vice is in the 'list' not the player. Otherwise you know my position on following the misguided Napoleon's Battles approach to artillery and I will not repeat my arguments on that again. Anyway that's it from me on this topic.

cheers
Mark
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Mick.G



Joined: 25 Jul 2013
Posts: 139
Location: Broadmeadows

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify, Richard Gordon, "Michael G" is Michael Gray correct?

Will the new lists be ready for the tournament in July? Or do we use the old ones?

I could be accused of using a power list previously, Austrian Reserve Corps, but that was purely to put an army on the table in time for the first tournament - painting expensive grenadiers and cuirassiers! I have now morphed that army into a standard infantry corps. I would still like to be able to add perhaps a division of cuirassiers or grenadiers to my infantry corps.
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's right, Michael Grey. Very Happy

Current lists will be used in the tournament but with a few tweaks to accommodate v2, mostly around artillery.
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Nick



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Bentleigh

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Equal points battles are a fantasy so I'm not sure it matters that much if you add some of the more colourful troops into the lists. I can't think of too many Napoleonic rules that limit players to the most basic troops only.

Having said that, it makes sense to limit the core structure to a standard infantry corps and allow the more colourful types only through divisional attachments, just to prevent really cheesy exploitation of the rules and lists.
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leadgend



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Brunswick

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the allowed artillery.
I am currently putting together a Prussian 1814 list for Sunday's game and the V1 list has Minimums of a small Medium Artillery unit and a small horse artillery unit.
Does this mean one of the Infantry or Mixed divisions MUST have a medium and a horse battery leaving _no_ option for the horse battery to be in a cavalry division and also no possibility of using the Heavy artillery option?
It seems to me that the V2 rules need better guidance on modifying the minimums and/or specifying that you can get 1-2 field batteries in a single infantry/mixed division _plus_ a horse battery _if_ a cavalry division is fielded (and of course the list otherwise allows).
Also the restrictions on this particular list specify that Infantry units must outnumber other types of units in a mixed division. If two artillery are present then that makes the minimum size of the division 4 inf + 1 cav + 2 art = 7 units which would likely be much larger than any other divisions in terms of inf/cav. Perhaps such list restrictions need to be changed to ignore artillery units?
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Django. We have some temporary list interpretations we are using at the NZ comp in June that covers part of this. I'll send these around.

Basically pre-1809 and all Peninsula armies can use 0-1 units of artillery and other 1-2. They can choose any type allowed in the primary list (i.e. Not from attached division lists).

We will have to review all the lists to find funnies like the one you highlight re the min number of infantry allowed in this particular list. For now, I would suggest going with "infantry units must outnumber cavalry units in a mixed division."
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leadgend



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Brunswick

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So ignore minimums and just have two artillery out of whatever the maximums are in the list?
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So last call for anyone wanting to contribute to the lists. I will send an email to people on my mailing list with some guidelines but if you don't receive it and wish to contribute, please pm me with your email address.

Submissions close on 31 March.
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Steve Green



Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Woodend

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen some comments on the Slitherine forum in the last couple of days from the recent comp in NZ, and they made mention of using some new lists.
Any word on when these might be available for general consumption? Or are they available already and Im just out of the loop?
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve, the players who volunteered to contribute to updating them have obviously had access to the draft v2 lists and I believe they agreed to let players use these drafts at their NZ comp.

We've finally found a publishing option for v2 and are hoping to have the published rules and lists out by the July comp. But no promises. These things always seem slower than you expect.

Happy to send you any particular draft v2 lists you'd like to cast your eye over for comment. Let me know which ones you'd like to see.
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martymagnificent



Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 60
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Richard,

If they are any different I'd love to see what is in store for the 05 and 09 Austrians, and the 1813 Swedes and Saxons (About to start working on getting the Saxons ready for FOGN).

Thanks

Martin

martymagnificent@yahoo.com.au
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Richard Gordon



Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Posts: 574

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those still being worked on but will send them to you for comment once they're drafted. For the July comp you'll still be able to use v1 lists.
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